Engine progress

tgood

tgood

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Here are the latest pictures of the 4-8-0 converted Scientific TOY engine.
The smoker, cam switch, air pump, motors, and heating element are all wired to the top plug.
There are two six lead plugs which will allow for future sound and control of headlight marker lights and rear lights. plus a two wired into one flicker lights that will shine through the fire box grate
Enjoy
engine 008.JPG
 

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Registered
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It looks like my scientific RC toy already had a smoke system (blue wires and clear plastic lung lead to the chimney).
IMG_6508.JPG

IMG_6510.JPG

Not quite sure how it works. I cant seem to get the light, sound or smoke system lung to work. I'm missing the original RC controller so I wonder if finding that would solve things. These trains are only meant to have one speed, forward and reverse. I managed to give it a speed gradient with an ESC via an added receiver, but it only works in the forward direction. Inverting the voltage only stops the train and causes the start button to reset to the 'off' status.
 
tgood

tgood

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The blue wires become energized when the controller is either set to forward or reverse. Note. The blue wires reverse polarity but that doesn't affect the smoke element but you can use this lead also for a head light and a red reverse tail light. Forward head light is on and reverse the red light is on and headlight off.
Same for reverse. Provided you use LEDS. Make sure the LEDS are 9volt. Suggest you search eBay for a controller that has both forward and reverse and sound button. The balloon bellows is seated next to a rod that is connected to the gears in the engine that's where it gets its puffing from. Suggest you replace the heat element with an E-cig element with an oil reserve this way you will get more smoke. I run mine with two 9.6 volt Airplane RC batteries and it does just fine. They fit nicely into the tender. My engine is a kit bashed engine turned into a switcher. Make sure it's a scientific controller with 27.145 MHZ.
As a follow up you can change the crystal in the controller to any 27.000 Mhz and look on the PC board and next to the Ant joint you will see the receiver crystal. It has a small dab of hot glue on it to prevent the crystal being moved off frequency. Change the controller crystal and then tape down the controller in either forward or reverse and remove, very carefully, the dab of hot glue and with a very small screwdriver re calibrate the receiver crystal to the new freq. You will get a response from the motor when you hit the correct freq. Much like playing with an old crystal radio. I've got four Scientific engines running on 27 Mhz but with .145,
Let us all know how it all turns out.

Pictures soon to follow.
John Tgood
 
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Thanks for all of the info. it makes this project more interesting.

I saw a video here of the same train I have, and it looks like the original controller only had 2 buttons:
So I wonder if a 27.145 mhz scientific controller with 4 buttons would still work. The original in the video seems to have sound, light and presumably smoke linked to the drive button. So I wonder if those extra buttons would do anything. Mine is not making sounds or light when I hook it up to battery power without the remote. But it does drive forward when I turn the bell switch and press the button on the loco. I normally use a rechargeable lithium battery, but temporarily put this one in for testing:

IMG_6516.JPG

I have tried to use other controllers with 27.145 mhz with no effect:
IMG_6506.JPG

So I wonder if an alternate scientific controller might also function different from the 2 button one it's supposed to have.

I looked for the crystal before I saw your message and couldn't discern where the crystal was, I should try to open it again and look for hot glue. Here's a picture I took of the underside of the board before I closed it:
IMG_6509.JPG


A big concern for me is that it seems this train does not have an electronic speed controller. I temporarily installed a receiver and ESC from an RC train I'm reverting to electric, so that the receiver/ESC is between the battery and the tender plug. It works driving forwards and changing the speed as I want, but when I stop the train or try to go into reverse the train will stop and no longer receive RC control until I press the button on top of the loco again. It will not drive in reverse at all with that set up and still no lights or sound. I'm assuming that the motor will not go in reverse if I apply an inverse voltage directly to the loud Chinese motor, but am I wrong? I was under the impression that different gears are engaged for reverse driving as my other scientific christmas train with only forward driving has less gears. I don't want to ruin it like I've ruined a newbright one before.

I was considering bypassing the scientific circuitry and wiring my receiver/ESC directly to the motor, but am worried it might damage the motor. And then if that works I wouldn't be able to access the sound and lights. Any ideas on how to incorporate an ESC into this sytem while keeping sound and lights? Thanks for the tip on the reverse lighting; If I get this working properly I probably would try to use the smoke wires for reverse lighting if I could.
 
tgood

tgood

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Is there a speaker attached to the inside of the boiler? If so it needs a four button controller Forward, stop, reverse and sound. A three button controller only works with a unit without sound. Forward, stop, reverse.
There are two button units out there but they are rare. They have a forward and reverse on a single button with a stop button. You must push the forward/reverse button then push the stop button to restart in another direction. I stay away from those engines as they have a bare bones PC board.
Hope this helps. These things are so cheap that I buy 5 or six to use the PC boards for my kit bashed switchers as they only need to go forward and reverse and you can install voltage reducer resisters to make them just creep around the yard when shunting.
Cheers
John T
 
tgood

tgood

Registered
12 Mar 2018
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USA
Thanks for all of the info. it makes this project more interesting.

I saw a video here of the same train I have, and it looks like the original controller only had 2 buttons:
So I wonder if a 27.145 mhz scientific controller with 4 buttons would still work. The original in the video seems to have sound, light and presumably smoke linked to the drive button. So I wonder if those extra buttons would do anything. Mine is not making sounds or light when I hook it up to battery power without the remote. But it does drive forward when I turn the bell switch and press the button on the loco. I normally use a rechargeable lithium battery, but temporarily put this one in for testing:

View attachment 260589
I have tried to use other controllers with 27.145 mhz with no effect:
View attachment 260587
So I wonder if an alternate scientific controller might also function different from the 2 button one it's supposed to have.

I looked for the crystal before I saw your message and couldn't discern where the crystal was, I should try to open it again and look for hot glue. Here's a picture I took of the underside of the board before I closed it:
View attachment 260588

A big concern for me is that it seems this train does not have an electronic speed controller. I temporarily installed a receiver and ESC from an RC train I'm reverting to electric, so that the receiver/ESC is between the battery and the tender plug. It works driving forwards and changing the speed as I want, but when I stop the train or try to go into reverse the train will stop and no longer receive RC control until I press the button on top of the loco again. It will not drive in reverse at all with that set up and still no lights or sound. I'm assuming that the motor will not go in reverse if I apply an inverse voltage directly to the loud Chinese motor, but am I wrong? I was under the impression that different gears are engaged for reverse driving as my other scientific christmas train with only forward driving has less gears. I don't want to ruin it like I've ruined a newbright one before.

I was considering bypassing the scientific circuitry and wiring my receiver/ESC directly to the motor, but am worried it might damage the motor. And then if that works I wouldn't be able to access the sound and lights. Any ideas on how to incorporate an ESC into this sytem while keeping sound and lights? Thanks for the tip on the reverse lighting; If I get this working properly I probably would try to use the smoke wires for reverse lighting if I could.
I would try placing ESC between the motor and the PC board leads as this won't harm either the board or the motor. When the engine in moving either in reverse or forward the ESC should control the voltage to the motor.
John T
 
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Registered
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Is there a speaker attached to the inside of the boiler? If so it needs a four button controller Forward, stop, reverse and sound. A three button controller only works with a unit without sound. Forward, stop, reverse.
There are two button units out there but they are rare. They have a forward and reverse on a single button with a stop button. You must push the forward/reverse button then push the stop button to restart in another direction. I stay away from those engines as they have a bare bones PC board.
Hope this helps. These things are so cheap that I buy 5 or six to use the PC boards for my kit bashed switchers as they only need to go forward and reverse and you can install voltage reducer resisters to make them just creep around the yard when shunting.
Cheers
John T
Yes they are cheap, I probably paid a dollar or less for mine. My train has a speaker in the boiler, and looks just like the one in the video. The one in the video has the 2 button controller and sound, but the sound is automatic when it drives in the video (no way to turn the sound off). If I have a 2 button version of the train, will the 4 button controller work with it? What you say about the ESC makes sense, but I think I'd need to use two separate controllers that way... one to control the ESC ond one to initiate the sound and lights... hmm. but it seems like it would at least work.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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Looks and sounds very similar to the sound system in the Newquid Loco but without a couple of the sounds I Think. I doubt that you will ever get any decent control with the original or 27mhz crystals. These will work possibly only 2 servo’s at best. Other types of RC such as the sort available in UK (Fosworks) or Crest in both USA or UK (or others USA) would give you more options though not so sure how the sounds would be accessed separately on these cheepo toys. I have had such beasts long ago in the past and they were pretty reliable basic motive power so may well be worth a €200 or slightly less investment. If the Loco did not stand the test of time the gear would move into another quite happily so the investment would not be wasted.
 
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Thanks again tgood. Your explanation of where the crystal was is exactly what I needed. I was able to find out how to make the sound play without the RC controller, by taking the 3.9 volts which appears on one line connected to the crystal when driving is latched on via the start button on the loco and jumpering it to another line a couple of outputs away. I also found reverse, stop, reverse sound, and some other things I needed to know. Now I can re-wire things and have sound without the original rc controller. So thanks. The smoke unit still works on mine but the light is burnt out(I'll replace it with an LED). I'm going to try to make room for my ESC in the front end of the boiler (this will require surgery). I'm going to jumper the sound pin to the drive button on the loco so sound is initiated by the drive button on the loco. The motor controls will be severed from the motor so I can put my own ESC directly to the motor. The driving will be controlled by a playmobil controller as I'm using a playmobil ESC. Because I will not be using the forward and reverse controls of the original system, I can't link forward /reverse lighting to the smoke unit wires. I may have to link forward and reverse lighting to the motor side of the ESC if I want forward and reverse lighting. I also found room for a firebox flickering light. The circuit fits under the cabin floor and there's a hollow channel leading under where the firebox door would be added. Not much room there, but with reflective materials I think the LEDs can stay under the floor and point where they need to shine, light bouncing off of strategically placed mirror stickers. I can link into tender power easily since the tender wires travel right under the cabin floor. I have a few options for a firebox door and I haven't decided which to use yet. I'm thinking of imitating the playmobil 4052 grill. I could try to make it look like this:
fb.jpeg

I would chop a square hole out of the green protrusion in the same location as the 4052 above, and glue a grill on and add some other details. This is what it looks like at the moment before I've done anything but add a seat:
my_photo-331.jpg


But I also have a couple of extra steaming mary boilers so I can chop one up and stick it in the cabin:
my_photo-350.jpg

I would have to cut the firebox door open and leave it in the open or partially open position so the flickering LED's could shine through. Not sure how well that would look.
 
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I got it working with the playmobil RC car ESC/remote combo, LED headlight to replace the original christmas tree style bulb (with aluminum foil inside the light box to prevent light bleeding through the plastic walls), and original sound. But I had to remove the smoke bladder to make room for the ESC, and I also had to trim the edges off of the front bracket which the front screw attaches to. I think I can fit the smoke bladder underneath the ESC if I find a longer tube from the bladder to the smoke stack. To get the sound to play when the momentary start switch on the top of the loco is pressed, I had to add the yellow/brown striped jumper wire between one end of the yellow push button, and the sound output coming off of the original quartz, this was necessary because I don't have the original remote. I also re-routed the original antenna to connect to the playmobil ESC antenna. The esc/receiver combo bypasses the circuit board completely:
IMG_6595.JPG

When you turn the bell power switch on, the headlight turns on and the ESC gets power. It can be controlled forward and reverse at that point, or press the other button on top of the loco to turn on start-up sound which transitions into continuous running sounds to which you can control the driving to match the sound. Then press the sound button on top again to initiate the winding down and parking sounds. I just need to finish decorating it and complete the firebox lighting, and find a longer tube for the smoke bladder. It's nice to see this thing have more than one speed for a change.
 
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tgood

tgood

Registered
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I got it working with the playmobil RC car ESC/remote combo, LED headlight to replace the original christmas tree style bulb (with aluminum foil inside the light box to prevent light bleeding through the plastic walls), and original sound. But I had to remove the smoke bladder to make room for the ESC, and I also had to trim the edges off of the front bracket which the front screw attaches to. I think I can fit the smoke bladder underneath the ESC if I find a longer tube from the bladder to the smoke stack. To get the sound to play when the momentary start switch on the top of the loco is pressed, I had to add the yellow/brown striped jumper wire between one end of the yellow push button, and the sound output coming off of the original quartz, this was necessary because I don't have the original remote. I also re-routed the original antenna to connect to the playmobil ESC antenna. The esc/receiver combo bypasses the circuit board completely:
View attachment 261377
When you turn the bell power switch on, the headlight turns on and the ESC gets power. It can be controlled forward and reverse at that point, or press the other button on top of the loco to turn on start-up sound which transitions into continuous running sounds to which you can control the driving to match the sound. Then press the sound button on top again to initiate the winding down and parking sounds. I just need to finish decorating it and complete the firebox lighting, and find a longer tube for the smoke bladder. It's nice to see this thing have more than one speed for a change.
What I like about these cheap engines is that with a little knowledge, which you have, one can really modify the PC board as long as you are very good at soldering the board. Yes---I too use a jumper wire to locate various controls on the board. There is a transistor that you can connect to the receiving antenna to increase range. The TX has plenty. The transistor has three leads one goes to the battery of your unit and the other two are placed between the PC board and antenna. This was how USA trucker CB'ers would increase their range back in the 60-80's. Don't knock the 27MHz system It works great for kit bashed switch engines that you are working in close proximity with. Getting crystals off eBay that are 27.000 are very cheap and easy to replace in the Tx. You just have to adjust the PC boards tune-able crystal to the matching frequency. Lots of fun and quite rewarding when you succeed.
tgood
 
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Registered
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What I like about these cheap engines is that with a little knowledge, which you have, one can really modify the PC board as long as you are very good at soldering the board. Yes---I too use a jumper wire to locate various controls on the board. There is a transistor that you can connect to the receiving antenna to increase range. The TX has plenty. The transistor has three leads one goes to the battery of your unit and the other two are placed between the PC board and antenna. This was how USA trucker CB'ers would increase their range back in the 60-80's. Don't knock the 27MHz system It works great for kit bashed switch engines that you are working in close proximity with. Getting crystals off eBay that are 27.000 are very cheap and easy to replace in the Tx. You just have to adjust the PC boards tune-able crystal to the matching frequency. Lots of fun and quite rewarding when you succeed.
tgood
Thanks for the tip, though I'm using a different receiver now which is encapsulated in a playmobil module with the ESC(the black box seen on the left in the picture on my previous post), so I don't see how I'd be able to use that hack. I separated the original antenna from the circuit board and made it an extension of the antenna coming off of the playmobil module. I can't drive it on live brass rails, as there's too much interference.

You ought to make a video of your layout so we can see what's going on there.