Cheapskate sound system

[robsmorgan]

Sorry y'all, I still haven't introduced myself properly - promise to do it soon.
Anyway Greg from downunder suggested (recent entry in cheap 2.4Ghz radio thread) that I start a thread updating my progress with using a very cheap MP3 player as the source for bell & whistle sounds on my (early stages of development) garden layout. So here goes....
I am awaiting delivery of an Enhaced Railboss 2.4Ghz which I plan to use to switch an MP3 player (£5.99 inc UK post) link:- http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=100694.
So far I have successfully dismantled the case and identified points to wire back to the Railboss unit to control the playback

I will probably wire the battery (1 x AAA) to an external holder to make recharging easier (10 hour life claimed by 7DayShop)

When I have received the RBoss kit and tested my theory, I will update this thread.... the next and more complicated? stage will be to use the MP3 multi-track facility to switch between sounds, although at these prices it might be simpler to install more than one MP3 unit.

Don't quite understand the rewards system so please don't feel un-loved if I don't offer them!!!:thinking:

 

[eye-kay]

Looks interesting. I await the next installment with bated breath.

 

[KleineDicke]

If you need some sound files for your mp3 player, there are some good ones available for download from the Harzquerbahn website - they have them posted as ringtones.
http://www.hsb-wr.de/hsb_barrierefrei/klingeltoene/

 

[gregh]

Anyway Greg from downunder suggested (recent entry in cheap 2.4Ghz radio thread) that I start a thread updating my progress with using a very cheap MP3 player as the source for bell & whistle sounds on my (early stages of development) garden layout. So here goes....
So far I have successfully dismantled the case and identified points to wire back to the Railboss unit to control the playback.
I will probably wire the battery (1 x AAA) to an external holder to make recharging easier (10 hour life claimed by 7DayShop)

I dragged out my old cheap MP3 player to have another go at this . Ran into a couple of problems, so thought I'd better see if you or anyone else overcomes them. Part of the problem may be that I am not familiar at all with MP3 players - I'm of the generation that does not need to have wires stuck in my ears all the time.

First off, I cannot get it to work with the battery wired externally. I can apply voltage to the MP3 battery terminals and it won't turn on. I don't know if it needs the presence of the large metal hunk to act as a ground plane or what. More testing required.

Then, my unit needs a button pressed to turn it on and then the same button pressed again to start playing the first track. I can't see how to simply trigger it twice at turn on. Any ideas or do different MP3 players have more buttons?

My pie in the sky plan at the moment is for a small railmotor sound unit with only ONE speed. I'd have 2 tracks - one of a (truck) diesel at idle (say 15 minutes long, will it ever sit idling for longer?), then a 2nd track of going up through the gears up to running speed (say 30 mins long - surely I'd never run continuously for longer than that).
Once I get the 1st track playing (see above), I'd then trigger the gear change track. Stopping the train will somehow trigger the idle track to restart.

Will keep you up to date with any further results.

 

[corgi]

Wouldn't it be easier to put a locosound unit in?

That would be cheapskate compared to other sound systems and less headaches.

 

[robsmorgan]

In reply to Greg, My MP3 (just ordered a few more while the price is low, just in case it proves to be better to use separate units for each sound ) needs to be switched on by pressing the play button.

sequence = On/Play/Pause.... long press = OFF

My re-wiring diagram (in previous post) 'boots' the system by making 1st contact , the next 'make' activates the sound when required. I haven't had any problem with lengthening battery leads.

One problem I have found - I think you foresaw this Greg, the player wants to go through all sounds tracks in sequence.... SO! I have 'recorded' 10 secs of silence on track 2 this gives me time to pause or make track selection.... next diagram shows that bit of the re-wiring.

This diagram shows where I have removed and soldered 2 of 3 miniature connections to enable track selection (I hope via the RC - but I still haven't received my Railboss kit to try it out)

Hope this helps a tad!

 

[KleineDicke]

Greg:
The multiple function on one button thing is common on mp3 players, especially the tiny ones. That would seem to be an advantage to me for wiring it up to a remote. Another thing to consider, many of these have a "Repeat Track" capability you might be able to leverage. You are also going to need some sort of ampliflier - most mp3 players are pretty anemic once you get beyond headphones.

I have no idea why yours won't work with an external power source.

If you ever get it working, you can build and edit your .mp3 fiiles with a freeware app called "Audacity". It is a great (and easy to use) audio editing program. It supports Windoze and Mac.

Of course, you could use more familiar technology:

Tough to fit it in any sort of G sized rolling stock, though.

 

[robsmorgan]

Hi KleineDicke, I am using a 12watt mono amplifier, may even route the o-board chuff through it!
Editing sounds is easy enough try www.tucows.com for a range of freeware thru shareware options.
Not sure about your mini cassette option, wouldn't my Akai 4000DS spool to spool give better frequency response!

Rob

 

[KleineDicke]

Hi KleineDicke, I am using a 12watt mono amplifier, may even route the o-board chuff through it!
Editing sounds is easy enough try http://www.tucows.com/ < Link To www.tucows.com for a range of freeware thru shareware options.
Not sure about your mini cassette option, wouldn't my Akai 4000DS spool to spool give better frequency response!

Rob

Yeah, and the reels could double as drivers.

 

[vasim]

A cassette tape would be handy for trains held in a loop.

 

[robsmorgan]

Now look here you guys.... this is a serious attempt to enable cheap sounds not jokes! You'll be telling me that the addition of compact discs helps with weathering next -:impatient: CeeDee.... my wife thought it was pretty aweful too!:-
Rob

 

[gregh]

So many replies to reply to (and some to ignore ).
I think I've about given up with my MP3 experiments :thumbdown: - it's all up to you Rob.
Too hard to turn it on (double presses). I'd be using more circuitry to turn it on and change tracks than would make it worthwhile.
I can't design a simple battery replacement for the 1.5V battery, which takes about 80mA, so would be stuck with using the battery. It seems to consume nearly 1mA just sitting waiting to be turned on, so would flatten the battery in a month if not used anyhow (or another switch!).
The only use I can see for MP3 is trackside sounds such as a timbermill.

KleineDicke - Thanks for the link to Audacity. I'm using Goldwave at present.

I'll stick to my other methods such as sound recorder cards for horns/whistles.
For anyone interested, I'll start a new topic to explain some of them and link to videos with the sounds.

 

[robsmorgan]

Come on Greg, Where's your Aussie spirit.... actually I am sure your projects are much better, but I'm looking at this with a particularly cheap piece of MP3 kit, and although I am STILL awaiting my Railboss kit (I didn't buy the Railboss to fit the MP3 - that was a decision already made) to test its left & right stick switching. The wiring I have shown does work manually without additional circuitry, the only problem I haven't checked yet is the preset down time of the MP3 - IF it has one.
As to the battery problem, I have yet to experience any problem.

Us Brits don't give up at the first sign of impossibility - I'll keep posting

Best wishes
Rob

 

[gregh]

Come on Greg, Where's your Aussie spirit.... actually I am sure your projects are much better, but I'm looking at this with a particularly cheap piece of MP3 kit, and although I am STILL awaiting my Railboss kit (I didn't buy the Railboss to fit the MP3 - that was a decision already made) to test its left & right stick switching. The wiring I have shown does work manually without additional circuitry, the only problem I haven't checked yet is the preset down time of the MP3 - IF it has one.
As to the battery problem, I have yet to experience any problem.
Us Brits don't give up at the first sign of impossibility - I'll keep posting
Best wishes
Rob

I'm really just waiting for you to do all the hard work Ron - Aussie laziness - I'd rather be at the beach.
I can't find any post of yours that actually shows a circuit for triggering the tracks - is that what you refer to?
One thing I didn't mention previously, is that my unit had 3V across the 3 open switches - when using a 1.5V battery! so there must be a voltage doubler or something in the MP3. Does the Railboss have volt-free contacts? If not these voltages may be a problem for you.

 

[robsmorgan]

Blimey Greg, thought you would be tucked up in bed!

These are the comments I received from Del at Railboss regarding my experiment...

Hi Robert - Your MP3 project looks interesting, although it seems that the MP3 player, amplifier, etc, may take up quite a bit of real estate. Keep in mind that the sound trigger outputs of the RailBoss are opto-isolators, so they are polarity sensitive and require the proper type of input circuitry to work (pull-up or pull-down resistor).

I inquired at exactly what this type of resistor was and I thought the MP3 only required a brief 'make'

It looks like you have identified the spots where the built-in switch connects to the PCB. Just connect the RailBoss + to the diode, and the - to the ground. It should work.

I had a sudden thought that the triggers might be permanent toggle on/off which wouldn't have been good!...

The trigger outputs from the RailBoss are momentary (on as long as the stick is held).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this answers your question and you can get a decent night's sleep

Rob

 

[robsmorgan]

And they said it couldn't be done !

It works.... after a period with the customs officials, then held pending £10.00 vat AND £8 Royal Mail fee for accepting payment (online!!!!) my Enhanced railboss 2.4Ghz has arrived..... and with patient help from Del at Railboss, I have managed to make sense of the FlySky RC channels.

The bit that works pretty much as I hoped is the Railboss control over the cheepo MP3 player. I can use the Aileron Right to (a) switch ON (b) PLAY or (c) PAUSE the selected track**, whilst Aileron Left allows me to skip through the pre-recorded tracks.
Alternatively I can use two of these tiny MP3 players and record a track on each then activate one with Left Aileron, the other with Right!
** Holding the Aileron to Right for a few seconds switches the MP3 Off again.

Total cost Railboss for full RC engine control (momentum, fwd/rev lights, etc.... and facility for track magnet activation (inc VAT & RoyalMail fee) circa £100.00
FlySky RC kit from China £35 inc p&p
MP3 from 7dayshop.com £5.99 + SD card
12w amp from Maplin (probably more than volume needed) circa £8.00
and downloaded tracks ripped from YouTube vids

I'm pretty chuffed by that. Will post more info if required.

Rob

 

[Del Tapparo]

Always nice to see the results you had hoped for come to life at the end of a project. Hopefully you will find the RailBoss does a great job of controlling your loco in addition to being able to dial up your favorite tunes via R/C. 8|

 

[robsmorgan]

Guess I should clarify my project.... I had already decided Railboss looked like good kit to use with a cheap RC system and would do what I wanted. But my 'cheapskate MP3' project should function with any radio control providing a transient ON whilst stick is held. Sorry I don't know the correct terminology.

Rob

 

[gregh]

Congrats Rob,
As Del said, it sure is a nice feeling when it finally all comes together. Might even encourage me to start work on the MP3 again!

 

[robsmorgan]

As I hadn't been able to demonstrate the final results from this project before, I thought I should publish the Youtube link provided in my recent thread 'film to go with hello' here. This will bring the thread to a sensible end with the opportunity to hear what it actually sounds like.

LINK - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb638_78O7s Regards Rob