Aristocraft train engineer hand held fail!

Eaglecliff · 3 Sep 2017

I had a relatively ancient orange BTE, picked up cheap and new from a set, then its aerial broke, acquired another new one which packed up very quickly so I swapped its aerial with the original which then worked ok. PWM didn't seem to be an issue with any of my locos (LGB, Bachmann and Aristo, all analogue). I then upgraded to a proper Revolution TE and only found a problem some time later when smoke started coming out of my new Bachmann Mogul (as per pic left) when I ran it on PWM for a while. No problem previously with the similar 4-4-0. Mogul still works fine but I'm careful to switch between PWM and straight dc when having a "mixed traffic" session.

Kayanbee · 3 Sep 2017

I use a Train Engineer and the receiver is switchable between linear & PWM. I use linear for my LGB locos. My transmitter is a bit intermittent on the fast switch button. I have another one which had the same problem. I am reluctant to try and replace the switch as this surface mounted components are so tiny and don't want to risk it not working at all. My power supply is a 6 amp 22v. laptop one.
I would like to know whether their is an alternative transmitter available. I've asked in model shop who as supposed to specialise in radio control and they don't want to know about an obsolete 27 MHz system.
Does anyone know of an alternative transmitter?

maxi-model · 3 Sep 2017

While I do not know an alternative I did pose a similar question here 3 years ago. take a look here - https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/train-engineer-alternatives-if-it-dies.299687/ -might provide some ideas. Max

PhilP · 3 Sep 2017

OK
Nailing colours t o the mast ...

I AM THE PRESENT PROPRIETOR OF RC TRAINS.

Rx65 can do 3 Amps at 18 Volts 'as is' or be made to do 6 Amps with a small daughter-board.
OR
Both the Rx65 or (more economically the Rx102) can drive an external ESC, such as those from Viper. - Even something big enough to put in a 24 Volts 71/4" loco if you so wish!

The minor problem is the 'fear' of damaging all your existing stock, and its' electronics, by feeding it with PWM output..
I can believe there have been some problems. but like 'exploding Lipo batteries' think the problem is over-hyped. - YMMV, usual disclaimers.

The main problem is people want a 'one-stop' solution. Getting kit tested to meet regulation (for even a single Country) is so time-consuming, complex, and expensive it would not be cost effective for the likes of me to do.

Designing / sourcing a 'PWM to linear' convertor is not beyond the wit of man though.

Points can be controlled, and I have thought of offering a kit (pre-built electronics)..
All the buyer would need would be a box with a track diagram, and to drill holes for the (up to) seven switches for point control..

The problem comes at the layout end..
As an example:
A PV ('solar panel') could be mounted on the roof of a Signal Box. This would house a 'burglar alarm' lead acid (cheap and plentiful) battery, charge controller and receiver.
From here three-wire cables would go to servo's to control the points.. This is where the problems start!
1. Too many different makes of track-work / points to make a single unit.
2. Differing throws required.
3. No feedback channel.
4. No auxiliary feeds for signals.

So this would require 'engineering' by the purchaser.

To my knowledge, there have been three enquiries about this, during the (admittedly short) life of RC Trains to date.
Those who have enquired, whilst appearing enthusiastic, have not placed an order.
The time to develop this, source bomb-proof servo's, Provide worked examples for the various bits of kit, hold the Purchasers hand etc. I can not see it as viable, sorry!

stockers · 3 Sep 2017

I see exactly where your coming from Phil.

chris m01 · 4 Sep 2017

Thanks for the thoughts Phil. I like the idea of connecting up to an external ESC.
My thoughts on point control were I think rather lass grand than yours. All of my points have LGB motors and are powered with cables from my central control point where I currently keep two Aristo point control units. Ge-rik has already done something using picaxe which could utilise the Deltang point control tx to change points. I'll have to have a go at this myself (what could possibly go wrong) but it would be good for the hobby if it was possible to buy a unit to do this. It could well be that there is insufficient interest to make it a viable proposition. Of course there is nothing stopping me from making and selling such a unit...except for knowledge and ability.

beavercreek · 4 Sep 2017

There is a pwc linear converter board that will work up to 0.5A made by Revolution (to connect the Revolution receivers to soundcards like the Soundtraxx Sierra that do not like PWC/PWM) it is $8.50
http://www.revoelectronics.com/product/lamp-pwc-linear-board.html

They also do a 5 amp version which is about $48 to attach to the the track side base station
http://www.revoelectronics.com/product/linear-p-p-board.html

Sean. · 20 Oct 2017

Have you seen this from " Remote Control Systems "
https://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/trackside-r/c

St A & M Rly · 20 Oct 2017

Sean McGill said:
Have you seen this from " Remote Control Systems "
https://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/trackside-r/c

Hi Sean
Thanks
This looks very promising I have contacted the local UK agent and await his reply.
I will keep the forum up dated as I get my hands on one.
looks visual very like the parts inside the Aristocraft controller but i may well be mistaken.
one has been ordered directly so I will wait for the post man he / she will have a long walk from Australia to Scotland He He

Amacf

Sean. · 21 Nov 2017

Anything to update us with ?

St A & M Rly · 22 Nov 2017

Hi Gang / Sean

The parts have arrived from Australia. I have a PWM radio speed controller. My Servo tester will be the speed reference signal. I also got a twin channel oscilloscope ( to PC ) to look at the shape of the wave out of the PWM and out of the analog unit.
I also have a ammeter look at the current.

The plan is Thursday this week to start testing into a simple and fixed lamp load. Once that is done then it is onto a rolling road with simple DC loco.

I have a plan........

Fingers crossed I should have data for you soon.

IN RETURN can the group look through their loco manuals and see what the manufacturers say on the power supply to their locos.
I know MTH say PWM is not allowed.
LGB also say no.

Note LGB have refused to repair a track cleaner due to it being used on a non LGB approved power supply......

Amacf

Sean. · 22 Nov 2017

I know that USA trains lighting do not like PWM

St A & M Rly · 22 Nov 2017

Thanks Sean
I’ll add it to the list info table
Amacf

daveyb · 23 Nov 2017

wonder what accucraft uses,,, my k28 needs to come back to yours for a spin round your track when your up and running again,,,

St A & M Rly · 23 Nov 2017

Dave,
Your K28 or the passenger lash up.. we know 1 A will not do it so with luck after these tests, running under load!
All the lights in the garden are now up so it can be run in the dark....

The Tests

All the stuff is connected. I only need to get the*&%%$£%"*!!! oscilloscope to work so I can show you all the results. A full piece is expected to be produced on completion.
Attached is the electrical diagram for the test and a few photos to show it on the bench ready.

Still need to work on the test sheet then switch it on.....Arrrr

Don't know what size the pictures are or what the limits are for the forum.... but I will be told.

I love 4mm plugs and sockets it makes rigging up outside very easy and very quick.

Yes there are 3 meters and 2 fuses.

More as soon as I can. It is moving on boys....Amacf

St A & M Rly · 23 Dec 2017

H8 Gang Scotland is windy and cool toda6. This an£ being caugh5 up with domestic duties allowed time in The Moose Hoose... my Shed.

I now have a load bank that is switchable in 10W steps to 130W at 12 ish Volts

I also salvaged an old battery drill motor 14.4v I think it is now on a base that will not run round the bench when run up to speed.

All the components are on 4mm test plugs so rigging up and changing round is easy( ish). The power to the railway is also these 4mm plugs and sockets so setting up for running is 60 to 100 Seconds job.

I tested this on my LGB 1A unit and drew about 1.5A so a descent motor load.

A ESC was lashed up with the servo tester, as the ESC had a. Battery elimination circuit BEC I did not need to power the servo tester. The control is very rapid, twitchie, around the centre zero point so not clear if this particular ESC will control a locomotive easily.... it will control speed and direction but very fine movements are needed. This is a control issue not a power problem so I am very hopeful of the overall system.

The oscilloscope ( usb to computer ) is here and still getting to grips with it.

So with luck next week will see me testing the smoothing circuit to see what it achieves...takes away..

Could have done with it for mid week as I have a small gathering on St A & M Rly next week. This is a cure for cabin fever.

I can still run Marklin on their DCC or my North American on MTH DCS so plenty options

So Gang progress is being achieved. Facts are being recorded and compiled so soon(ish) we will understand if ESC and linear smoothers will do what we need. A simple smooth DC output from a hand held device.

Enjoy the festivities. I sit and watch my OO train run round the Xmas tree and just smile.

St A & M Rly · 23 Dec 2017

P.S.... the bench is full of cables and stuff so no photos this time...
Must try harder to keep it and MH (Moose Hoose) clean and tidy....

PhilP · 23 Dec 2017

Looking good... - I could do with your bench-space here!

Especially as SW has decreed I am not allowed to use the rest of the house as 'storage' over the festive period!

Await your results...
ATB
PhilP.

Greg Elmassian · 24 Dec 2017

So I'm confused again, you ordered an esc from Australia? What transmitter are you using? Did you give up trying to re-use the Aristo base station?

By the way, is the Revolution system really that expensive in the UK, it's pretty cheap here, and there is a 15 amp version.

Greg

minimans · 24 Dec 2017

I'm a total Luddite on DCC and other non analogue systems but would this be of any use? http://www.revoelectronics.com/57001.html
or does it require all new receivers for individual locos?

Aristocraft train engineer hand held fail!

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