Aristocraft train engineer hand held fail!

St A & M Rly · 29 Aug 2017

hi Gang my first post.
I use a aristocraft train ngineer or did. The hand held transmitter failed. It was 14 year old.
The base station appears to be good.
Has anyone used the base station with another radio system. Replace the radio bit with a ?? Radio

I have several MTH locos which I run on Analog DC along with Accucraft,Bachmaan and associated others.
I have read many places any , or most ,PWM controllers will kill DCS..DCC and LGB electronics.

St A & M Rly · 29 Aug 2017

A base station electrical diagram would be helpful. If anyone has or knows wher I could get one
p.s.
Sorry boys up loaded before signing off

Thanks for any help Amacf

stockers · 30 Aug 2017

They do crop up on ebay now and again.
Is yours the black or orange one?

St A & M Rly · 30 Aug 2017

It's a black one with multi channel. But as these are long past their use by date a long term solution is needed. Looking at a low pass filter on the output of a ESC.

By the way I see your ( Sockets) image is a 96 mallet. I have a live steam one that pulls......

Amacf

stockers · 30 Aug 2017

No idea what a low pass filter is - so cant help you there.
96 Mallet - nearly but my avatar is a narrow gauge (LGB) model of a twelve wheeler - not 16. LGB painted this model in several different ways to represent various originals - sometimes stretching accuracy by a long way.

Alpineandy · 30 Aug 2017

St A & M Rly said:
hi Gang my first post.
I use a aristocraft train ngineer or did. The hand held transmitter failed. It was 14 year old.
The base station appears to be good.
Has anyone used the base station with another radio system. Replace the radio bit with a ?? Radio

I have several MTH locos which I run on Analog DC along with Accucraft,Bachmaan and associated others.
I have read many places any , or most ,PWM controllers will kill DCS..DCC and LGB electronics.

When you say the transmitter has failed..........what is it not doing...........the electronics are fairly basic and it may be worth attempting a repair. You should not use PWM with dcc equipped loco's as it may damage the chip...........

dutchelm · 30 Aug 2017

Are you sure it does not need resetting. They have been known to loose their likning.

maxi-model · 30 Aug 2017

Basic checks if a TE does not seem to be responding -

Batteries fully home and in right ?
LED's light up on TX constant and not flashing when any key depressed ? Check battery condition if flashing LED's
Correct channel selected (Green LED for base station/controller) ?
TX's ariel properly connected ?
RX's ariel properly connected ?
Is the green LED on controller flashing when you press a button on the TX, after checking all above ? If not try rebinding the TX and RX and re-selecting channel for base station.

Sorry if this falls into, "teaching grandmother to suck eggs" dept'. Mine is 13 years old too, I'm waiting for the fateful day. Max

maxi-model · 30 Aug 2017

dutchelm said:
Are you sure it does not need resetting. They have been known to loose their likning.

You beat me to it. Max

ntpntpntp · 30 Aug 2017

PWM doesn't damage electronics (the voltages are no higher than if pure DC is used), but it can confuse some DCC decoders which are unable to recognise the pulsed DC as an analogue signal and not DCC, and hence behave erratically or not run at all. If it causes random rapid changes of speed and/or direction can damage loco gearing.

The Devonian · 30 Aug 2017

My original (black coloured) TE failed to respond a couple of years ago. After a post, elsewhere, it was suggested that batteries do after a while give off some fumes creating a fine ( unnoticeable to me) 'slime; on the electronics.
I used methylated spirits (wood alcohol in the USA?) to gently clean the pcb using a small cotton bud pick. The TE then worked well and has done since.

dutchelm · 30 Aug 2017

ntpntpntp said:
PWM doesn't damage electronics (the voltages are no higher than if pure DC is used), but it can confuse some DCC decoders which are unable to recognise the pulsed DC as an analogue signal and not DCC, and hence behave erratically or not run at all. If it causes random rapid changes of speed and/or direction can damage loco gearing.

WRONG PWM will sometimes kill an LGB decoder, ask Peter Skinner who does LGB repairs..

St A & M Rly · 30 Aug 2017

Hi Gang
I thought it would take longer to get to PWM " it will!!" " it will not !!" cause damage argument.

As I have MTH locos and MTH says No to PWM.
I have LGB locos and LGB are known to be damaged by PWM
I have Bachmaan which are not chipped so Analogue is needed
I also have some UK outline which is basic with no sound or other cards.
I therefore need a reasonably smooth analogue output. The Train Engineer did what I and several others wanted and needed. It is switchable so Analogue (smooth) or PWM

What happend?
The controller started flashing several and all LEDs, then blank ---- nout---- nothin--- naff all , a new set of batteries (right out the bubble pack) and zero, blank ---- nout---- nothin--- naff all sentence. The base station power unit was working, the power light was on, the supply to it is by non reversible plug.

I am not prepared to put the above engines/ locomotives onto, even high quality, Electronic Speed Control PWM ECS units

Replacing 1 unit is understandable having to refit up to 20 locos......i think you can answer that question!!
I know others have gone down this road before and some will be coming to this position, now or I hope in a long time.

So smoothing systems, filters and altered outputs will be a way forward. The train engineer did it so it must be possible, the parts are still in it!

I can see a Google session is coming up, unless anyone has done it and can or want to share the knowledge.

As I'm new, can private messages be sent between forum members. Anyone who wants it this way fine by me.

Amacf

stockers · 31 Aug 2017

Private messages are called 'conversations' in this software. See the little envelope/down arrow symbol top right of screen

Greg Elmassian · 1 Sep 2017

I'm missing what the question is now after all the posts.

The original post asked if you can modify the transmitter to work with another radio... no you can't in any reasonable effort.

The original post also mentioned you use DC on MTH because MTH does not like it... yep that is true, but no question was further posed.

Then you state you don't want to outfit 20 locos... so do you have the 27 MHz train engineer system with multiple onboard receivers, or are you stating you want a "trackside" power setup that powers the entire layout with a remote?

Greg

St A & M Rly · 1 Sep 2017

Good Morning Greg

I basically want a replacement for the train Engineer. I used it to supply DC to the track so any of my locos can run.
I was happy with this and wish it to be replaced.
It would have been nice to replace the transmitter and still use the base station. That was a dream that I did not expect to be possible. An electronic engineer would probably enjoy the task but for me it's out with my skill set. With you saying it's not easily done it confirms my thoughts.

As I use lashups ( multiple locomotives on one train) I need the Amps that train engineer can give.

Many of the controllers I have seen are PWM, so not much use for my fleet. The smoothing add on was an option but now unavailable.

I see that there is a active unit available (thanks Greg) from Revolution Electronics this active linear plug and play board is rated at 5A. It appears to be for placing in each locomotive.

If this is true then the output of 5A and need to be in each loco reduces the usefulness to me . although at 50usd each would be a option for many.

So to recap my needs are :-
a base station with an output of smooth analogue DC controlled via a hand held unit which can be used around the layout / garden
The output needs to be 10 plus Amps with a dc input from a switched mode DC power supply giving out 24V to the new base station.
The aristocraft train engineer did this for me for many years. But has now died.

I believe several more people would want the same simple system.

Amacf
St Andrews

chris m01 · 1 Sep 2017

Yes I would love the same thing. I also control all my points from my TE. I have got a spare tx and track rx and points rx stored for use as spares. I am sure there would still be a market for a simple, robust radio control system.

Hutch · 1 Sep 2017

St A & M Rly said:
Good Morning Greg

I basically want a replacement for the train Engineer. I used it to supply DC to the track so any of my locos can run.
I was happy with this and wish it to be replaced.
As I use lashups ( multiple locomotives on one train) I need the Amps that train engineer can give.
Many of the controllers I have seen are PWM, so not much use for my fleet. The smoothing add on was an option but now unavailable.
I see that there is a active unit available (thanks Greg) from Revolution Electronics this active linear plug and play board is rated at 5A. It appears to be for placing in each locomotive.
If this is true then the output of 5A and need to be in each loco reduces the usefulness to me . although at 50usd each would be a option for many.
So to recap my needs are :-
a base station with an output of smooth analogue DC controlled via a hand held unit which can be used around the layout / garden
The output needs to be 10 plus Amps with a dc input from a switched mode DC power supply giving out 24V to the new base station.
The aristocraft train engineer did this for me for many years. But has now died.

I believe several more people would want the same simple system.

Amacf
St Andrews

I use the trackside Linear Revolution for track power. It allegedly can put out 10 amps continuously. It has worked for me, including using it at full voltage to provide track power to run a Revolution equipped locomotive.

Greg Elmassian · 2 Sep 2017

Exactly what Hutch says, the new company selling the Revolution makes 2 flavors of the "trackside" unit, one PWM, one "linear" DC.... buy one of those, quite a good price for what you get.

On sale even!

http://www.revoelectronics.com/product/linear-super-base-station-tx-rx-set.html

Greg

chris m01 · 2 Sep 2017

To me $325 plus postage to U.K. Plus VAT on the whole lot is rather expensive for a basic control system. This is of course because the revolution tx is far more than what is needed. I can't see any circumstances where I would want sound from the shed that houses my power supply. Also the point control seems to not be available.
In my view this is simply nowhere near a substitute for the original Train Engineer - far more expensive and lacking point control option.
We could do with the chap who owns RC Trains getting together with the guy who runs Deltang to discuss this. I'm sure the guy from Deltang could design a receiver that could cope with 24 volts and 10 amps continuous drain and provides linear power that works with the TX-22. This would be brilliant for me because I could use just the one transmitter for both track and battery powered locos. I really like having a knob to turn for control rather than pushing buttons. The TX-22 costs £68 and the 18volt 3 amp receiver £40. Even if a beefed up receiver was double the price a complete set up would only cost in the region of £150 which make for a very affordable set up

I also think it would be easy for someone who understands these things to build a radio control point system. Deltang has something but it doesn't appear to be an easy match to G scale point motors.

Aristocraft train engineer hand held fail!

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