Building A Simple, Small Loco Battery Conversion
- Thread starter seigezapf
- Start date
A couple questions I wanted to ask, Chris, about using AA and AAA batteries. I have ordered a few plastic cases in different sizes to try out. First of all what type of batteries do you use? I don't think the rechargeable PCB protected Li-ion cells (10440/AAA, 14500/AA) have that high of a mAh rating. So maybe NIMH? Also, is there any issue with charging batteries in place when you use separate holders, though I suppose it would be the same as if they were in one pack? I intend to use a DPDT switch to separate power from charging and to use a charging jack. Would that work with your set-up? I do have a charger that can charge up to 10 NIMH cells. Thanks for your help.
I put the set-up described in my above diagram in a Hartland Railbus and it works well. The 11.1v Li-ion battery i used, however, would not fit in the 2023 diesel, so I am waiting for the smaller AAA battery holders to arrive. I did find - on Amazon - 10440 (AAA) PCB protected 3.7v Li-ion batteries. I may try that since only 3 batteries would be needed. The downside is 600 mAh, and from reviews that may be overly optimistic.
Craig
PS: I have looked through the Deltang site. Very impressive. I will be trying them out.
I put the set-up described in my above diagram in a Hartland Railbus and it works well. The 11.1v Li-ion battery i used, however, would not fit in the 2023 diesel, so I am waiting for the smaller AAA battery holders to arrive. I did find - on Amazon - 10440 (AAA) PCB protected 3.7v Li-ion batteries. I may try that since only 3 batteries would be needed. The downside is 600 mAh, and from reviews that may be overly optimistic.
Craig
PS: I have looked through the Deltang site. Very impressive. I will be trying them out.
I've been involved in other stuff for a bit - totally sidetracked. Boy, time does go by quickly. I'm ready now to start up again with conversions using what I have on hand, though I do want to try Deltang. i will be trying some AA's and AAA's in addition to Li-ion packs. I'm curious whether those 10440 3.7volt AAA's are at all effective.
Andy, hopefully someone with a lot more knowledge than me can answer your question. I think maybe load and discharge rate come into it.
I cleaned the debris off my track and have been running some inexpensive (cheap) battery locomotives while experimenting with making some videos. This is my recent, pretty crude, attempt.
Still fun though.
Andy, hopefully someone with a lot more knowledge than me can answer your question. I think maybe load and discharge rate come into it.
I cleaned the debris off my track and have been running some inexpensive (cheap) battery locomotives while experimenting with making some videos. This is my recent, pretty crude, attempt.
Still fun though.
Can this idea also be used with track power?
What's the benefit of using batteries over track power?
What's the benefit of using batteries over track power?
Yes you can have power on the track all the time, and use an ESC (with built-in, or separate RX to control the loco..
The benefit of batteries, is no (well, a lot less) track cleaning.. You still need to remove debris that would derail a loco or stock, and clean anything that will stick to wheels etc.
Down-side is the additional cost of batteries per loco and having to 'housekeep' their charging. - Eneloop batteries seem to hold their charge better, but are more expensive initially.
You could also use a standard power supply to the track, set reasonably high, then individual speed controls on each loco.. You would set a speed, and leave them to it.. If you needed an 'emergency stop', you could turn down (or off) the transformer.
You have made great progress Henri!
Found some 'interesting' items of stock as well..
Well done!
I’ve been experimenting with trying to come up with a small, simple battery system to fit into some small locomotives (e.g. LGB 2063) that I have.
I am using a Spektrum DX5e transmitter and Orange DSM2 receiver.
For the motor I am using a Pololu 18v15 Simple High Power Motor Controller. For power, a Tenergy 11.1v Li-ion battery. The motor controller connects to the "Throttle" port on the DSM2 and supplies 5v from a built in BEC.
I wanted simple motor sounds, so I am using an ITT sound board. The board is powered by the same battery with a Turnigy Receiver Controlled On/Off switch spliced into the positive power wire. The Turnigy is connected to the "Gear" port on the DSM2 and controlled by the channel 5 switch on the transmitter.
When I actually install it I will include a main power on/off switch, lighting, and charging jack. I also am deciding on speaker type and placement, though I am leaning toward placing it under the cab roof.
So far the system works nicely and is very small.
Here is a rough diagram (Turnigy switch labelled "TEN").
So this is a work in progress. I can post the installation when I get that far.
Craig
I used the Pololu 18v7 Simple High Power Motor Controller (as recommended by a robot specialist after sending current specs etc) for my Bachmann Consolidation "Connie"but instead of using a DSM2 configuration (tying myself to one format is I find a bit restrictive for equipment choice) I used a gneric Transmitter (TX) and receiver (RX) from Hobbyking.
The power source is a Turnigy 14.8V 4.0AHr lipo graphene battery again from Hobbyking.
I used one side of the transmitter for Connie and the other for 'Shay" so I can get 2 locos on the one transmitter or I can bind as many as I want up to 99 locos (big job watching all that at once)
The throttle movement (up/Down) can be set with Fwd and Rev and a neutral halfway.
Pololu motor controllers are fully programmable using the free downloadable software and a USB cable (like the ones used to charge some smart phones) , I found it extremely easy to use so it should not be much of a challenge for anyone.
I have teamed the 18V7 with a 'Mylocosond' sound card which gives chuffs dependent on throttle settings.
I intend to operate the whistle trigger input by connecting a micro servo to the Rx channel to be operate by the L/R spring loaded function of the throttle stick. The servo will have a magnet mounted on a control arm that will momentarily close a reed switch to trigger the whistle.
I have modified most of my Tx's to give the L/R function on both sticks, thanks goes to Bill Wray from Texas for the idea.
This is a cost effective method of converting a loco to Battery R/C, all up outlay for me was under AU $150.
Battery was AU $ 48 inc postage and the controller was $50 inc postage.
The sound card I had but a new one is AU$100 + postage.
The servo I also have but they are fairly inexpensive and available almost everywhere.
On/Off is by a simple toggle switch.
The R/C, sound and battery are all mounted in the tender with a connection to the motor in the loco.
Layout showing USB lead (removed) and battery
18V7 board with USB connected.
All electronic components
Nice work! That combination of motor control and battery is just what I had in mind too. I like the Pololu motor controls. I have not followed through much with on-board control after I discovered and have played around with battery powered track control (using 18v motor scooter and 24 volt wheelchair batteries). I do have a Connie powered by a 14.8 volt battery and set-up similar to yours. It won't set speed records, but it runs well. I use Spektrum Tx/Rx but I doubt is is much different in function from the HobbyKing you use.
I have a couple MYLocoSound boards, but have never been able to make them work. Probably a simple reason and that I am not very good with electronics. Maybe I'll study your wiring a little closer to see what I am doing wrong.
I have used the Polulu motor control with TX/RX running battery track power. Unfortunately I fried a Pololu controller because of a short in the track (caused by ruffhousing dogs) and my dumb lack of including a fuse on the positive lead of the battery. I'd be sure to include a fuse since the Pololu motor controls do not have a cutoff circuit.
I tried to understand your description of the whistle control. It sounded very clever. By left/right do you mean the rudder control on the TX? Which channel is that on the RX. I guess I didn't understand very well. Maybe you could post a photo at some point. My Connie does not have a whistle function - well it doesn't have sound (see MyLocosound comment above) but it would be nice.
Craig
I have a couple MYLocoSound boards, but have never been able to make them work. Probably a simple reason and that I am not very good with electronics. Maybe I'll study your wiring a little closer to see what I am doing wrong.
I have used the Polulu motor control with TX/RX running battery track power. Unfortunately I fried a Pololu controller because of a short in the track (caused by ruffhousing dogs) and my dumb lack of including a fuse on the positive lead of the battery. I'd be sure to include a fuse since the Pololu motor controls do not have a cutoff circuit.
I tried to understand your description of the whistle control. It sounded very clever. By left/right do you mean the rudder control on the TX? Which channel is that on the RX. I guess I didn't understand very well. Maybe you could post a photo at some point. My Connie does not have a whistle function - well it doesn't have sound (see MyLocosound comment above) but it would be nice.
Craig
1. I have a wiring diagram showing my hook up, I'll dig it out and post it here.
2. If you have used a Pololu with Tx/Rx and battery track power all you need to is put the pololu on the train and connect directly to the motor instead of the rails and install a battery, basically you are just cutting out the rails between controller O/P and motor.
3. Download the free software for Simple Motor Control Center in the User manual
para 3.1 https://www.pololu.com/docs/0J44 its where you set motor speed direction and low battery voltage cutoff functions.
4. The 4 channels on my Tx are labelled:-
RUDDER = Rx channel 4 = left stick, left/right movement (spring loaded centre return).
THROTTLE = Rx channel 3 = right stick up/down movement.
ELEVATOR = Rx channel 2 = left stick, up/down movement (spring loaded centre return removed).
AILERON = Rx channel 1= right stick, left/right movement (spring loaded centre return).
5. For MyLocoSound help, contact them via their website, explain the issue and ask questions. Peter Lucas, the owner, is very helpful and gives great backup service.
This is my first 18V7 install but I am seriously considering in using one for an MDC "Big Hustler" install that requires reworking following a failure of the installed motor controller.
View attachment 220654
View attachment 220655
I have dug out my loco build notes as promised these include a description block diagrams etc. for the build.
This is a copy of the current build log, I try to keep all iterations for all my locos as I change things on them. Sort of a configuration record similar to what I used to use when working on aircraft a few years ago.
They help to refresh my memory and I can see at a glance what is inside instead for dismantling them if I forget what is in there (a common occurrence these days)
Radio Control for 1:20.3 Bachmann Spectrum Consolidation (Connie)
History
Loco was given to me by Rex Hudson as a non working model.
It had a split drive gear on the drive axle; repair was made by replacing the drive axle assembly with a new one from Bachmann. The replacement has a brass gear mounted on the axle assembly.
Radio Control & Electronic Components
- HobbyKing 2.4Ghz 4Ch Tx & Rx Version2 Mode 1, (Throttle on the RIGHT) converted into Mode3 i.e. throttle on Left Hand stick for Consolidation with the Right Hand stick used for Bachmann Shay.
- HobbyKing 2.4Ghz Receiver T6A-V2, compatible only with HobbyKing T4A & T6AVersion2 transmitters, (a 4 channel Rx comes with the Tx/Rx combo but any extra Rx’s have to be 6 channel, because that is all that is offered by HobbyKing).
- Polulu 18V7 simple Motor Controller (ESC) basically a controlled H – Bridge. Motor speed and direction parameters plus neutral position and battery protection levels are programmed via a USB cable using Pololu Control Centre software (free download from Pololu).
- One (1) 4000 mAH Turnigy Graphene LiPo Battery (4S), to give a nominal 14.8V.
- 3A Polyswitch, from WES Components, is used as a circuit breaker it is connected in the battery positive lead between the battery and the On/Off switch.
- MyLocoSound Sound Card with speaker.
All electronic components; Battery, Pololu motor controller and MyLocoSound card, are mounted in the tender.
Motor and front LED power is supplied to the loco via a header socket and plug, with the socket mounted on the tender and the plug on a lead from the loco. The pins and socket leads are wired in parallel for current carrying capacity.
The speaker is mounted on the tender floor.
A DPDT switch is used for power ON/OFF.
Battery Charging is conducted with the battery removed model for safety concerns about charging LiPo in-situ using a balance charger.
Power Supply
The unregulated 14.8V battery provides power for all the electronic components, Front & Rear Lights, and the Motor.
Lights
The Front LED light is wired across the motor lugs, the Rear LED is connected across the motor input (M1, M2) of the sound card.
They are wired in opposite polarity giving directional lighting.
As with all LED install a current limiting resistor is in series with the LED.
This log is meant to be read in conjunction with the 2 pdfs attached.
Craig
This is how I use my batteries.
I use 3000mAHr tagged NiMH batteries, that I get from a trade components warehouse, in the majority of my locos
I use Low Self Discharge (LSD) similar to Eneloop (I buy them from Hobbyking) in my transmitters. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rechargeable-battery-aa-2550mah-nimh.html
They are a lower capacity, they can be used in AA holders but I prefer tagged as there are less mechanical points of failure ie 1 each end of each cell because they are soldered. Down side is if 1 fails then its a big job to find the U/S cell but touch wood I have had no failures in the last 8+ years.
Hobbyking also carry Eneloop which I have used in the wife's camera. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/panasonic-eneloop-pro-battery-aa-2450mah-nimh-4-pack.html
I charge all my NiMH batteries in situ via a ON/OFF/Charge DPDT Centre Off switch.
I do not use a socket I just put lugs (usually brass machine screws) in an unobtrusive place and connect via alligator clips on my charge lead. I charge then on a regular basis (about 4-5 times/year) to keep them topped up and ready for use similar routine to how aircraft batteries are maintained.
I have not gone down the path of the PCB protected Li-ion cells, my Li batteries (see previous post) are removed from the loco for charging in a safe place using a balancing charger and a low charge current of 1/10 C ie 5.0MAHr C = 0.5MA charge current, takes awhile but I am extremely risk averse when it come to those things. The batteries have no built in protection the charger is set to prevent overcharge and the ESCs I use have an undercharge feature that shuts down at a preset voltage.
Yes, yes, yes and yes - alternative approach for simpletons like me is to use an intelligent charger for the LSD NiMh cells. This will charge at an appropriate rate, will not overcharge, and does not necessarily have to be turned off immediately that the cells are fully charged - no settings required
