Idiots guide to starting on DCC

[andyspencer]

Evening guys, I'm looking for a bit of help to starting up in DCC. I'm fairly cluded up electrically, with plenty of battery R/C experience but have never really had any DCC experience.
So some basic questions...

-Will different manufacturers products work together correctly?
-Can a chipped loco operate on Dc powered track correctly?
-Can I un-chip a factory chipped loco? And if so, do I loose its sound functions if fitted?
-For hardware, I'd need some form of basestation, a handset, and power supply - anything else?
I'm not really interested in operating trackside devices such as points/signals, but want full control of loco's/rolling stock and sound.
-Are there any guides/info I can read in plain english?

Any other help guidance that would help.

Thanks

 

[stockers]

Hi, a potential can of worms is this.
There are so many variations.
But lets have a go.
Nearly all current chipped locos will run on the common systems. There is a 'standard' that most manufacturers more or less follow.
A chipped loco will run on DC track - no need for switches or anything - the chip detects the DC and works accordingly - basic sound functions continue too but not all the little detail sounds.
Unchipping a factory fitted loco cound be awkward because all the connection sometimes use the decoder board. You will usually loose the sound as well brcause it is usually on the same board.
Yes - base station, power supply and handset should get you going - cablefree radio link can follow later.
You can add trackside later if you want
I suggest you have a nose around the Massoth web site - they have copies of thier instruction manuals available. http://www.massoth.com < Link To www.massoth.com
Dont panic - it looks complicated at first - it isn't once you get into it.
A second hand LGB MTS system cound be a good and relatively cheap way to start. The '3' has more functionality than the '2' version but costs more.

 

[stockers]

You need to visit someone operating DCC to see how to get the best of it.

Very good point - probably the best bit of advice.

 

[Zerogee]

............
Unchipping a factory ditted loco cound be awkward because all the connection sometimes use the decoder board. You will usually loose the sound as well brcause it is usually on the same board. ............

Generally this is correct with newer locos, but notable exceptions are the early-ish LGB factory-chipped locos where they installed 55020 or 55021 decoders piggybacked to the analogue circuit boards - in some of these you can remove the decoder(s) and flip the DIP switches back on, then the loco is back to analogue but still has the sound board if it was originally so equipped. I've recently got a DR Mallet (build date circa 1998) just like this, digitised at the factory with a 55020 chip + 55030 booster combo plugged into the standard sound board. Got rid of the 55020/55030 setup and replaced with a Massoth XL, but between taking out the old decoder and fitting the new one I tested the loco on analogue and everything (including sound) worked fine.
If the loco uses an LGB small or large onboard decoder, as most of those newer than about 2003 tend to, then Stockers is quite correct and a lot of rewiring will have to be done to "de-chip" it.

Jon.

 

[Zerogee]

Oh, and I DEFINITELY agree that there is no substitute for visiting a few local lines/open days with folks using DCC and seeing how they work!

Jon.

 

[andyspencer]

For loco's which are DCC ready, am i right in thinking they have a stadard type socket on board for chips? Will they only take LGB chips in LGB locos? Cost wise is normally cheaper to buy a factory chipped and sounded loco or retro-fit myself? The types of loco's i'm looking at are the swiss GE 4/4 eletric type models.

 

[yb281]

You need to visit someone operating DCC to see how to get the best of it.

Very good point - probably the best bit of advice.

As you live in the West Mids Andy, you could always join the G Scale Society and come to one of the West Mids area group's meetings in Solihull? They re-start after the Summer break in September. Our club layout is capable of running DCC and loads of the members use it on their home layouts.

 

[Zerogee]

For loco's which are DCC ready, am i right in thinking they have a stadard type socket on board for chips? Will they only take LGB chips in LGB locos? Cost wise is normally cheaper to buy a factory chipped and sounded loco or retro-fit myself? The types of loco's i'm looking at are the swiss GE 4/4 eletric type models.

It will often be cheaper in the case of LGB locos to buy the analogue non-sound version and fit a Massoth sound decoder (an XLS for the big locos). As a rule of thumb, if the DCC/Sound version of a loco is more than about £180 more expensive than the analogue/non-sound version, then it will be cheaper to buy the latter and chip it yourself. Massoth have made most of the DCC electronics for LGB for some time now, and compatibility between them is pretty much 100%. Having said that, in theory any other DCC decoder should be fine in LGB locos too, as they are all made to set standards now - some folks prefer, say, ESU decoders over Massoth, and the Dietz sound chips seem quite popular too. Pretty much all modern LGB locos have DCC sockets for easy decoder installation, but even those that don't are generally not difficult to do if you know your way round basic model electrics.

Jon.

 

[ntpntpntp]

-Will different manufacturers DCC products work together correctly?

Most of your questions have been answered well in previous posts. With regard to compatability of different manufacturers, the thing to understand is that the control signal that's applied to the trackwork is a standard and that means that any manufacturer's dcc decoder that complies with this standard will work. Where you get incompatability between brands is in the physical and protocol connections between throttles (controllers) and command stations.

So this means that you can fit a decoder from LGB, Massoth, Digitrax, Lenz, Zimo, ESU, NCE or whatever into your loco, according to your power and feature requirements and the cost you're willing to pay. However you're normally pretty much locked into a brand of DCC command station and throttles so it's important to make up a list of requirements and spend time evaluating which systems suit you best. Certainly make sure you have a go of different systems at dealers, clubs etc.

 

[whatlep]

For loco's which are DCC ready, am i right in thinking they have a stadard type socket on board for chips? Will they only take LGB chips in LGB locos? Cost wise is normally cheaper to buy a factory chipped and sounded loco or retro-fit myself? The types of loco's i'm looking at are the swiss GE 4/4 eletric type models.

Andy
Standard socket type - no. There are several variations, both within the LGB fleet and certainly with other manufacturers
LGB chips only in LGB locos - absolutely not. LGB chips were made by Massoth in any case (or Lenz for very early ones). It is generally easier to use LGB/Massoth chips in LGB locos, but certainly not compulsory
Cost-equation - varies by loco. Often cheaper to install yourself, but it rather depends on your levels of skill & knowledge.

Please feel free to PM me and come over to see my DCC system in action if it would be helpful. I'm somewhat west of Malvern which counts as the West Midlands, but adjust your watch by a century or so.

 

[PaulRhB]

Excellent advice above and once you've chosen your route you'll find there's other questions that arise and chances are one of us has already done it or discovered it so keep asking.
There are a few minor incompatibility issues with different makers chips and command stations but usually there's a easy solution or minor compromise.
If you choose sound the more sophisticated chips by ESU and Zimo offer slightly more realistic sound by having more samples making up the library it plays, they just need a little more setting up. Best advice there is if you want sound and don't want to be tied to just one make of chip go for a universal pc programmer like the SPROG which has simple to use interfaces that can be downloaded from the net. Only reason to tie yourself to one make is if you want to programme non standard sound files onto a chip as then you need that makes programmer. For setting the CV's though, that control speed and loco ID etc, you can use any combination of makes of chip and a base station or programmer.

 

[Neil Robinson]

-Can a chipped loco operate on Dc powered track correctly?

I've not noticed a specific reply to this question in this thread.
My experience of DCC is limited but I think I'm right in saying that in addition to fully, permanently, analogue compatible chips there are some chips that don't support analogue operation and others that have an option to switch analogue mode off.
I would suggest that you check this before purchasing any particular chip/chipped loco.
No doubt more experienced members can comment more fully.

 

[New Haven Neil 2]

There was a comment in one of the posts neil, but I'd like to add one little thing in this regard, as a long time used of DCC in HO scale (my G scale is all steam or battery).

The ability to recognise and run on DC is a function of most decoders, but it often causes run-away issues in my experience. Swithcing off this ability with the relevant CV stops this from happening. This is frequently discussed in the smaller scale DCC forums, but oddly I don't see it mentioned much in large scale - maybe the favoured Massoth chips aren't prone to it - I find digitrax the wost offenders personally.

Just thought I would chip in..........sorry!

 

[andyspencer]

Thanks for the help so far guys.
next question, if I have a factory fitted sound loco, will a chip work with the fitted sound card. Would the answer change if said loco was either an old version or a newer DCC ready model?
In addition to Whatleps offer to visit, does anybody else run DCC either in the midlands/warwickshire, Bristol area or centralish London that I could possibly visit to get a fell of DCC operation?

 

[Gizzy]

Thanks for the help so far guys.
next question, if I have a factory fitted sound loco, will a chip work with the fitted sound card. Would the answer change if said loco was either an old version or a newer DCC ready model?
In addition to Whatleps offer to visit, does anybody else run DCC either in the midlands/warwickshire, Bristol area or centralish London that I could possibly visit to get a fell of DCC operation?

If you mean to fit a DCC chip to a DC loco already fitted with sound. then yes.

I fitted a Massoth XL to a Wizzy Cranks 2095 Diesel that has factory sound with the back-up capacitors.

It's an oldish model but with 4 wires to the motor blocks, so it was a relatively easy install.

It works fine....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4nT3k2ZXPI